The price of ignoring Palestinians' needs

Excellent article Yaakov. Very well written - I agree with every word.

Excellent article, thanks for sharing/seeding. These were pretty much my thoughts when Hamas came into power, they should do something for the good of the palestinian people and not worry about whether Israel is good or bad, actually both countries should care more for their people, people constitute the entity that they call a nation.
Cheers!

including Israel, turned a blind eye as Palestinian civil society was hollowed out, its streets taken over by armed thugs and its youth indoctrinated to glorify suicide bombers and despise Israel

Wait, so is this saying that Israel hasn't been harassing Palestine, and has nothing to do with the fact that many more palestinians have died then Israelis. Israel has not turned a blind-eye to Palestine. Israel has been cited with about 65 resolutions.

UN Resolutions Against Israel, 1955-1992
1. Resolution 106: "...'condemns' Israel for Gaza raid"
2. Resolution 111: "...'condemns' Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people"
3. Resolution 127: "...'recommends' Israel suspend its 'no-man's zone' in Jerusalem"
4. Resolution 162: "...'urges' Israel to comply with UN decisions"
5. Resolution 171: "...determines flagrant violations' by Israel in its attack on Syria"
6. Resolution 228: "...'censures' Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control"
7. Resolution 237: "...'urges' Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees"
8. Resolution 248: "...'condemns' Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan"
9. Resolution 250: "...'calls' on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem"
10. Resolution 251: "...'deeply deplores' Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250"
11. Resolution 252: "...'declares invalid' Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital"
12. Resolution 256: "...'condemns' Israeli raids on Jordan as 'flagrant violation"
13. Resolution 259: "...'deplores' Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation"
14. Resolution 262: "...'condemns' Israel for attack on Beirut airport"
15. Resolution 265: "...'condemns' Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan"
16. Resolution 267: "...'censures' Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem"
17. Resolution 270: "...'condemns' Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon"
18. Resolution 271: "...'condemns' Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem"
19. Resolution 279: "...'demands' withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon"
20. Resolution 280: "....'condemns' Israeli's attacks against Lebanon"
21. Resolution 285: "...'demands' immediate Israeli withdrawal form Lebanon"
22. Resolution 298: "...'deplores' Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem"
23. Resolution 313: "...'demands' that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon"
24. Resolution 316: "...'condemns' Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon"
25. Resolution 317: "...'deplores' Israel's refusal to release Arabs abducted in Lebanon"
26. Resolution 332: "...'condemns' Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon"
27. Resolution 337: "...'condemns' Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty"
28. Resolution 347: "...'condemns' Israeli attacks on Lebanon"
29. Resolution 425: "...'calls' on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon"
30. Resolution 427: "...'calls' on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon'
31. Resolution 444: "...'deplores' Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces"
32. Resolution 446: "...'determines' that Israeli settlements are a 'serious obstruction' to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention"
33. Resolution 450: "...'calls' on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon"
34. Resolution 452: "...'calls' on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories"
35. Resolution 465: "...'deplores' Israel's settlements and asks all member states not to assist Israel's settlements program"
36. Resolution 467: "...'strongly deplores' Israel's military intervention in Lebanon"
37. Resolution 468: "...'calls' on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return"
38. Resolution 469: "...'strongly deplores' Israel's failure to observe the council's order not to deport Palestinians"
39. Resolution 471: "...'expresses deep concern' at Israel's failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention"
40. Resolution 476: "...'reiterates' that Israel's claims to Jerusalem are 'null and void'
41. Resolution 478: "...'censures (Israel) in the strongest terms' for its claim to Jerusalem in its 'Basic Law'
42. Resolution 484: "...'declares it imperative' that Israel re-admit two deported Palestinian mayors"
43. Resolution 487: "...'strongly condemns' Israel for its attack on Iraq's nuclear facility"
44. Resolution 497: "...'decides' that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan Heights is 'null and void' and demands that Israel rescind its decision forthwith"
45. Resolution 498: "...'calls' on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon"
46. Resolution 501: "...'calls' on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops"
47. Resolution 509: "...'demands' that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon"
48. Resolution 515: "...'demands' that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in"
49. Resolution 517: "...'censures' Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon"
50. Resolution 518: "...'demands' that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon"
51. Resolution 520: "...'condemns' Israel's attack into West Beirut"
52. Resolution 573: "...'condemns' Israel 'vigorously' for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters
53. Resolution 587: "...'takes note' of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw"
54. Resolution 592: "...'strongly deplores' the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops"
55. Resolution 605: "...'strongly deplores' Israel's policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians
56. Resolution 607: "...'calls' on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention
57. Resolution 608: "...'deeply regrets' that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians"
58. Resolution 636: "...'deeply regrets' Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians
59. Resolution 641: "...'deplores' Israel's continuing deportation of Palestinians
60. Resolution 672: "...'condemns' Israel for violence against Palestinians at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount
61. Resolution 673: "...'deplores' Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United Nations
62. Resolution 681: "...'deplores' Israel's resumption of the deportation of Palestinians
63. Resolution 694: "...'deplores' Israel's deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return
64. Resolution 726: "...'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of Palestinians
65. Resolution 799: "...'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for their immediate return.

And thats only to 1992.

Great article, Yaakov.

I am sorry if I hit a personal string on you Yaakov, but if I just included a list of what they did wrong, you would have attacked me on that. I had done an essay on this in the past and had those resolutions, so I got them from there. Do you believe I made those resolutions up?

In any case I will look for the list on a more credible source for you.

I couldn't find the website where I had originally obtained the resolutions, but this may do.

Ok disregarding UN resolutions, do you believe Israel doesn't do anything unjust in Palestine. No inhumane things?

Because other neighboring countries pressure Israel, they take it out on Palestine? I seem biased about this issue, because I have lost several friends in Palestine for no just reason. I am also angered when on the news, it is always heard how many israelis died in an event, although nothing to what the Israelis have done. It is too uneven. It makes it seem like Israel is just being abused by Palestine, when it is quite the contrary. And when a group comes out to defend themselves in the only way they know how or can they are labeled terrorists. I speak of the Hamas.

Also why do all the neighboring Arab countries, dislike Israel? Could there be a reason?

Also why do all the neighboring Arab countries, dislike Israel? Could there be a reason?

Let's just look at this one, shall we Maaz?

Almost the second that Israel was born it was invaded by its Arab neighbours. It had done nothing other than declare its existence.

The Arab reaction was not therefore to anything Israel had done, merely to the fact it was trying to get itself born.

And it's been more of the same ever since.

I think it has a lot to do with Muslim ideology that objects to a non-Muslim state in what it regards as its home territory. That State doesn't have to actually do anything - just be there.

Israel has had to defend itself from attempts to destroy it ever since. If you're one of those who believes that Israel should never have been born then that is your prerogative, but don't blame Israel for taking action to defend itself or its citizens. If occasionally some of its security operations have got a bit out of hand that is wrong, but probably unavoidable given how long it has had to keep taking actions to protect its civilians.

Also, even if you are one of those who believes Israel should never have been born, how could that birth be undone now without committing an even greater crime against humanity?

Wow, Israel was born .. interesting way of putting it. I would argue that they used terrorist tactics and waged war to acquire something that was not theirs, especially by today's standards.

But alas, you are correct, Israel now occupies the land and with our current political climate, undoing the past will not stand as it seems only the U.S is allowed to wage war, thus leaving the Palestinians with little recourse.

Unfortunately time will not heal these wounds and certainly Israel is not going to give back the land it took in the war, given the water rights, holy lands and just acreage to expand that it wants .. so what to do, maybe that's the discussion we should be having...

Wow, Israel was born .. interesting way of putting it. I would argue that they used terrorist tactics and waged war to acquire something that was not theirs, especially by today's standards.

Which history books do you read?

Israel declared independence. No war involved or necessary. It was the Arabs who immediately started the war to try to snuff Israel out at birth.

As for the land that "was not theirs" - well it was in the hands of the British who were in the middle of some post-war nation building. Before that it had been part of the Turkish Ottoman empire.

You make it sound like there was this established independent state of Palestine and some guys apear out of nowhere with a load of tanks and say we're taking over.

Well that wasn't the way of it.

There was a UN backed partition plan which provided for Israel and for an Arab state (Transjordan, later Jordan) although the Arabs objected. Israel took the initiative but it was verbal not violent.

Read the books again.

In the UN partition plan, Israel was given far less land than it has now, or even before 1967 (6-day-war)

Israel in the past has shown itself to be very willing to give up land in exchange for peace. However, that requires a willing partner. Israel returned Sinai, which it gained in a war which, depending on how you consider it, may have been a defensive war, (thus under international law, Israel would be entitled to Sinai) in exchange for peace with Egypt. Last August, Israel withdrew from Gaza, in exchange for nothing.

The 1973/Yom Kippur War as well as the 1948/Independence War was a war of self-defense. The 1967 War was a situation in which Israel's neighbors were building up forces on Israels border in assumed preparation for an attack. Israel pre-emptively attacked in its own defense, gaining the Golan Heights and the West Bank. I believe (but Im not totally sure) the invasion and occupation of Lebanon was in retaliation to militants attacking Israel from Lebanon

None of this is to say that Israel is anywhere close to perfect. It has down many regrettable things including various massacres in those two refugee camps that start with an S but whose names I dont remember. (help?)

However, in the mideast, one should take what one can get. Israel offers a true republic/democracy wherein all Israeli citizens (including Chrisitians and Muslims) get votes. Freedom of (but not from) religion is offered, in addition to freedom of speech, press etc.

"First, Hamas must explicitly abandon the goal of destroying Israel and renounce terrorism."

Yes Hamas has to do so. Also, Israel has to stop destroying any hope for a Palestinian state. Israel is building takes more than 10% of the land occupied after 1967. Also, Israel is killing Palestinians on daily basis. Hamas has to abandon its goal and Israel must abandon its actions.

Am I missing something here.

Whats the difference between Irgun murdering 90 people & the head of Irgun later becoming the Prime Minister of Israel & Hamas rise in the political arena.

Don't get me wrong, I think that both Irgun & Hamas have inflicted terrible crimes but I have yet to see any who condems the Palestinians admit to crimes commited on behalf of Israel or it's founders.

I wonder why

@Antipodes: You sound like a Palestinian sympathiser looking for an excuse to paint the Israelis "as bad as" the Palestinians.

Dredging up Irgun terrorist acts from many decades ago is a bit desperate. Sure there were some bad things done in the past but the individuals involved have moved on from that.

For there to be parity with the Hamas situation we would have to have Irgun still an active terrorist organisation, with recent history of deliberately and indiscriminately murdering civilians, having a commitment to the destruction of the Palestinian teritory as the fundamental pillar of its charter and having just been elected as the party of Government in Israel.

We don't have that situation so spare us the ancient history.

Dennis

I think you have quite strongly exhibited one of the biggest problems. Israel continues to draw a line between it's own terroristic activities & those inflicted against it.

Let me ask you this... Do you think that Menachem Begin was a terrorist or a freedom fighter. If he was a freedom fighter, what is the distinction between him & the activities of the palestinians who seek to kill innocent Israelis?.

You say that it is ancient history & it's time to move on but would you stand up & say that to children who were left fatherless when Irgun assasinated him. Murder is Murder, it doesn't matter when it occurred. There is parity between Hamas actions & Irguns, they both inflicted murder for political reasons & I think it's important to recognise & remember that rather than try & draw faint distinctions based on time.

Unless Israel recognises it's recognises it's own past & realises that this included the pain inflicted on others is a valid as the pains inflicted on itself, I see very little progress & a continuing decline in support for Israel from the international community.

Sorry Dennis,

I forgot to add that yes, I do sympathise with the innocent Palestinians, I also sympathise with the innocent Israelis. I am neither Muslim or Jewish & I when I see a Palestinian or Israeli, I see no difference between the two & look forward to seeing peace.

Somehow I don't think this is going to happen until both Israel & the arab nations wake up to the realitry of the situation & both make significant concessions.

Still don't see what you're trying to prove based on this Irgun stuff.

That Israel should be "understanding of Palestinian terrorism" based on the fact it once dabbled in it? Well, no it damn well shouldn't!

Nothing justifies terrorism of the sort perpetrated by the Palestinians, by anybody, for any end, ever. They murder people and you look for excuses to spare them criticism or make them look less bad because you sympathise with Palestinians' circumstances.

I sympathise with their circumstances. Their circumstances are bad. Do you know why? Because of the terrorists who will not let go of the idea of destroying Israel, who prevent a negotiated peace, who perpetuate a doctrine of hate that keeps the Palestinians focused on their obsession to remove Israel instead of building up proper lives for themselves despite vast amounts of international aid, that commits such vile acts of terrorism that Israel to protect its civilians has had to introduce a whole series of security measures that have been very damaging to the Palestinian economy.

If you are sympathetic to the poor conditions for Palestinians blame their terrorists of today. Don't make excuses for them and forget Irgun.

Dennis,

can you point out where I was excusing terrorism of any sort?.

I will state my postion on this very clearly

Terrorism is evil, murder is evil & I condemn the killings by palestinian & by israelis.

I think that the pain inflicted by Arafat on innocent civilians was unforgiveable & I think the pain inflicted by Menachem Begin was unforgiveable too.

Will you match me on that?, somehow I doubt that you will without drawing some kind of distinctions.... & that my friend, is part of the problem. You cannot nuance you way out of condemning one & trivialising the other.

I do commend you on your use of the word dabbling,I have never heard it used in a discussion about terrorism.

I think it was 90 people that died in bombing of the hotel, how many people do you think should have been murdered before it was considered a serious terrorist offence? or do crimes from 60 years ago not matter any more?

or do crimes from 60 years ago not matter any more?

On the contrary it is positively counter-productive. It takes the focus away from Palestinians terrorism of today.

How quick would you be the forget about Palestinian terrorism if Hamas did an about turn tomorrow and recognised Israel? Would you still be harping on about it for 60 years?

Somehow I knew that you would not match me on condemning terrorism if it was commited for the sake of Israel.

If the Palestinians who practice terror renounced it tomorrow, I bet you would find an excuse to use their past actions against them for a long time. When is the cut off point?

You are very evasive..... I wonder why

Somehow I knew that you would not match me on condemning terrorism if it was commited for the sake of Israel.

Wrong - I did condemn it - both #18 and #21 condemned it. For the avoidance of doubt I'll condemn it again - terrorism by Irgun was wrong.

If the Palestinians who practice terror renounced it tomorrow, I bet you would find an excuse to use their past actions against them for a long time. When is the cut off point?

Wrong again. I would be delighted if Palestinians renounced terrorism. That would be great news for both Israelis and Palestinians. It's your cut-off point I was questioning in #23. I would put Palestinian terrorism behind me in a minute if there were a genuine peace but you are still going on about Irgun's actions of half a century ago.

You are very evasive..... I wonder why

I could not be clearer or more direct.