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Articles Posted: 72  Links Seeded: 601
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Part Hate - Why the term Apartheid cannot be applied to Israel

Seeded on Fri Mar 2, 2007 4:47 AM EST
Read ArticleArticle Source: supernatural.blogs.com
world-news, racism, jews, palestinian, anti-israel, israel-palestine, appartheid
Seeded by Yaakov
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Please see the complete article for more on the subject (I just quoted one of the most relevant passages).

It is thus easy to see that Israel is not an apartheid state. All citizens of Israel (whether Muslim or Jewish, Arab or European) have equality before the law. There is nothing close to resembling the separate provision of amenities – Muslims and Jews use the same hospitals, Muslims and Jews use the same public transport, Muslims and Jews all vote in Israeli elections, Muslims and Jews can run for election etc etc. Muslims in Israel can choose to study in the language of their preference and Arabic is even one of the national languages of Israel. In apartheid South Africa, although blacks made up over 80% of the population, not a single African language was recognised by the state.

So why does the comparison still stick? The peddlars of this fraudulent comparison often focus on the Bantustan analogy in order to push it.

The peddlars explain that the West Bank and Gaza (Palestinian territories) equate to the old South African Bantustans. It is claimed that this 'separation' is a convenient measure for the Jews to devoid themselves of responsibility for the Palestinians. (As a side note, it is this that is the real "Transfer" problem in Israel - - the transfer of all responsibility for the Palestinians to Israel. The Palestinians are never responsible for anything, not even for themselves).

The problem with the comparison is that the separation between Israel and the Palestinian territories is more akin to the separation between South Africa and Mozambique (or any other bordering state) than to South Africa and the Bantustans.

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  • Public Discussion (10)
Oluseye

Ok but does it apply to Israel's rule over Palestine?

    Reply#1 - Fri Mar 2, 2007 6:29 AM EST
    Yaakov

    No, it doesn't. And furthermore, I don't understand the question (or, I understand it, but believe that it is based on an incorrect understanding of the history here). Israel is not ruling over Palestine. There never was a country called Palestine that Israel conquered. As the article above states:

    The separation between South Africa and the Bantustans was designed and implemented by apartheid South Africa. The separation between Israel and the Palestinian territories however, was designed by the 1947 UN partition resolution 181. It was not Israel that created this separation (in order to racially subjugate a majority population!) The UN created the separation in order to create two separate states for two separate nations. This happened all over the Middle East once the Ottoman Empire collapsed.

    Those that now claim that Israel has created Bantustan-like homelands for the Palestinians are either completely ignorant of the Middle East history, ignorant of what apartheid really was, or they are being deliberately malicious. Either way I am certain that part of their campaign is driven by hate.

    You may have issues with some of the ways in which Israel has treated Arabs that live in areas conquered by area in certain wars of defense against other Arab countries. That is a whole other discussion (that we have had many times, a discussion that cannot be held without also addressing the threats to Israeli civilians and cities by terrorist organizations that seek to represent these people). But to make blanket assertions of Apartheid and thereby draw parallels between the racism that existed in South Africa is completely invalid.

    • 8 votes
    #1.1 - Fri Mar 2, 2007 6:37 AM EST
    Oluseye

    Israel rules an area which virtually all non-deniers including the Bush Admin call Palestine. These areas remain under occupation and the conditions there have been likened to apartheid. Is this accurate or not?

      #1.2 - Fri Mar 2, 2007 8:30 AM EST
      Yaakov

      Israel rules an area which virtually all non-deniers including the Bush Admin call Palestine.

      So you are saying that the area is called Palestine, except by almost all people who do not call it Palestine. Very astute.

      And very inconsequential. Israel is occupying land that was conquered from Jordan in response to an attack by Jordan. Jordan subsequently withdrew their claims to this land. And while Jordan had control (1948-1967) their control of this land was recognized by almost no countries. Whether or not you call it Palestine, the West Bank or Judea and Samaria does not change the facts of the situation.

      These areas remain under occupation and the conditions there have been likened to apartheid

      Yes, these areas remain under occupation, as Israel has never officially annexed the land (unlike, for example, Jerusalem). And yes, some have likened it to apartheid. However, as the article above shows, this likening is completely misinformed and unsubstantiated.

      Aside from that, all of your statements are accurate.

      • 6 votes
      #1.3 - Fri Mar 2, 2007 8:53 AM EST
      Oluseye

      However, as the article above shows, this likening is completely misinformed and unsubstantiated.

      No. The article talks essentially about Israel and not those occupied parts.

      His analogy of separating South Africa from Mozambique is daft because obviously apartheid South africa did not control Mozambique.

      • 1 vote
      #1.4 - Fri Mar 2, 2007 11:26 AM EST
      Marilyn L

      My understanding is that the end of the occupation requires a peace treaty. It takes two to tango. Israel has negotiated in good faith, and came close, during Clinton's presidency, to negotiating a peace agreement with the Palestinians. Giving up land with no agreed terms doesn't work well, if either side does not accept the other's existence.

      • 2 votes
      #1.5 - Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:26 PM EDT
      Reply
      pb3cat

      Hey, as long as we're throwing around nasty words, let's say that Jordan - by throwing all the Palestinians out, and the rest of the Arab world - by doing nothing helpful - throwing them in Refugee camps while blaming Israel for everything - created an apertheid situation by doing all they could to keep the Palestinians away from them in their "Homelands" By the way, when the UN offered separate areas to the Jewish and Arab populations of Palestine (yes, we were all Palestinians!) the Arabs refused, preferring to take the adice of the their brother countries and push the Jews out. Oops! They had a country handed to them - they said no, kill the Jews. And this is the Israelis fault somehow??? Get a grip.

        Reply#2 - Fri Mar 2, 2007 11:40 AM EST
        Gideon Polya

        Apartheid Israel is a deadly accurate description of the abusive and illegal Racist Zionist dominion over the Holy Land.

        For a detailed checklist of comparisons between racist Apartheid South Africa and contemporary racist Apartheid Israel see posting #7 at link .

        That checklist of Apartheid Israeli abuses includes many things highly offensive to non-racist humanity and which violate the UN Charter and the Geneva, Rights of the Child, Universal Human Rights and genocide Conventions - read #7 at link .

        Fundamentally Racist Zionism (as opposed to non-racist zionism involving Jews wishing to happily live in Palestine in peace with equity, justice and reconciliation with the Indigenous inhabitants) involved right from the beginning colonialist invasion, settlement and violent dispossession, disempowering, deprivation and displacement of the Indigenous Inhabitants.

        Racist Zionism in practice involves many of the horrible abuses of South African Apartheid (Bantutstans, dispossession from land and property, political disempowering, compulsory race-based ID as in Nazi-occupied Europe , illegal mass imprisonment, military and paramilitaryattacks on Indigenous civilians etc).

        Even in Israel "proper" , Arab citizens (20% of the population) might have the vote but they are racially excluded from major areas of activity and largely removed from participation in government.

        I am lucky to live in Australia. Some remnants of my family subject to Nazi genocide came to Australia rather than to do to Palestinians in Palestine what the Germans had done to us in 1944-1945 (notwithstanding the Allied victory, out homes and our lands - some quite extensive and valuable - have been occupied since 1945 by non-owners just as all of the Holy Land is forcibly and traumatizingly occupied by Jews and nearly all but the Gaza Strip and a dwindling and grossly violated part of the West Bank and Jerusalem actually ethnically cleansed and physically settled by Jews).

        Even though Australia has an evil, racist, war-mongering Bush-ite Government, most Australians are easy going when it comes to ethnic differences (although racist, dishonest and manipulative Racist Zionist and Bush-ite terror hysteria has caused an appalling entrenchment of anti-Arab anti-Semitism and Islamophobia). Many of my best friends (Christians, Muslims, Jews, agnostics) are in inter-ethnic marriages.

        Accordingly just ONE of numerous Apartheid-style obscenities in Israel - the functional prohibition of Israeli-Palestinian marriage and cohabitation - is to us an utterly offensive, disgusting and unforgivable law. Thus I and many of my closest friends would have been imprisoned in Apartheid South Africa because of these disgusting, evil, racist laws coming between husand and wife and children (indeed reminiscent of Nazi-era laws).

        The Israeli Government declares that these Apartheid laws are needed for "security" but this is simply false, racist abuse and "terror hysteria". No doubt bombings and other killongs are deplorable and evil and terrifying, but dispassionate inspection of Holy Land homicide statistics reveals that annually over 80% of Holy Land homicides are committed by Jewish Israelis - if anyone needs "security" from "terrorists" in the Holy Land it is Palestinians - and especially Palestinian Children - from Israeli State Terrorists.

        Post-2000 the "average annual homicides" totalled 1240.1 in the Holy Land but from the perspective of VICTIMS 286.7 (23.1%) have been OF Israelis and 953.4 (76.9%) OF Palestinians – however in relation to PERPETRATORS, 1004.4 (81.0%) have been BY Israelis and 235.7 (19.0%) have been BY Palestinians i.e. in terms of "terror deaths" over 80% are due to Israelis and these mostly due to Israeli military or paramilitary killers (see: link ).

        The PROBLEM in both Apartheid South Africa and Apartheid Israel was racist ideology (for an outstanding analysis see: Lindqvist, S. (1992), Exterminate All the Brutes (Granta Books, London, 2002)) and racist colonialism followed by racist dispossession, disempowerment, displacement, deprivation and regional ethnic cleansing of the Indigenous Inhabitants.

        The SOLUTION in South Africa was simply NON-RACISM and could also be so in the Holy Land when the Israelis (Jews and Arabs) get rid of their evil Racist Zionist political leadership that acutely threatens Israel and indeed threatens all Jews world-wide who are tarred with the brush of Racist Zionism and the horrendous human rights abuses of Apartheid Israel.

        Thus well-intentioned people have suggested eminently sensible proposals for a non-racist PEACE in the Holy Land with equity, justice and reconciliation (see : link , link and link ).

          Reply#3 - Fri Mar 2, 2007 6:45 PM EST
          Kerstin

          dispossession from land and property

          And I suppose that you're not counting the expulsion of Jews from Gush Katif (among other places) as dispossession from land and property?

          Racist Zionist

          You throw around this term as if you know what's going on in Israel. I'm sorry to be slightly incoherent in my post, but I'm tired of people spouting off terms like Racist Zionist in a diatribe backed by experiences they've never had. It bothers me that you believe you hold the corner on the market of knowledge when it comes to the state of Israel, and that you honestly think that Palestinians are completely devoid of blame or responsibility.

          • 3 votes
          #3.1 - Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:17 AM EDT
          Dennis M Wright

          There is such a thing as citizen journalism and there is such a thing as pushing ones own agenda. This can coincide with said agenda being so extreme or one-sided that any attempt to relate it to reality meets an early demise.

          There are some Viners who "have it in for Israel" regardless of any rational, balanced perspective and liberally throw in loaded terms like "Apartheid Israel" or "Racist Zionist" in the hope these will stick in the mind and brainwash the hard of thinking.

          Let's have it: "Readers of this thread ...."

          • 2 votes
          #3.2 - Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:04 PM EDT
          Reply
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