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Israel's Actions in Gaza are an Act of Self Defense - Al-Jazeera

Seeded on Mon Jan 5, 2009 3:16 AM EST
Read ArticleArticle Source: Al Jazeera, YouTube
world-news, israel, gaza, hamas, international-law
Seeded by Yaakov
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Check out this interview on English Al Jazeera. I bet that that guy wont be invited back anytime soon.

Here is the transcript

Al Jazeera: Joining me now is Gary Grant, a barrister specializing in international law. Does Hamas have any sort of a case in the eyes of international law for this attack?

Gary Grant: Very little. Any country's first duty is to protect its citizens. It is called self defense. And of course Hamas is an organization intent on the destruction of Israel and the Jews in Israel as part of its covenant.

AJ: Surely it is not proportionate.

GG: Well, not quite that simple. If someone were to run at me, a knife-wielding lunatic, I don't have to wait for that knife to enter my heart before I am allowed to respond. I am allowed to take preemptive action in order to stop it [Yaakov: You also don't have to fight back with a knife - if you have a machine gun, take him down]. Now Israel...

AJ: Surely the killing of civilians is against international law and the targeting of populated areas where you know that civilians are going to die is against international law.

GG: Even if you target your action at military sites, civilians are inevitably going to get killed...these need to be contrasted with the actions of Hamas where every single rocket is designed to attack civilian populations, so every single act of Hamas in firing these rockets is clearly an illegal act without any legal justification.

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  • Public Discussion (68)
worldknightboy

The terrorist group hamas will find only the usual terrorist apologist/supporter suspects to come to their defense at this point. May the IDF have continued success in its lawful actions of self-defense, as it continues to eradicate the hamas terrorists and their infrastructure!

  • 12 votes
Reply#1 - Mon Jan 5, 2009 4:42 AM EST
Yaakov

The terrorist group hamas will find only the usual terrorist apologist/supporter suspects to come to their defense at this point.

Well, that is why the above interview is so unusual - Al Jazeera interviewed someone who made a convincing argument why Israel is in the right.

  • 13 votes
#1.1 - Mon Jan 5, 2009 4:50 AM EST
jimmy havok-596667Deleted
Yaakov

but you knew that already

Yes, I did. And I will now refrain from rehashing the same old argument for the 10,000th (approximate) time in Newsvine history (that said, I think that you are wrong...but you knew that already)

  • 14 votes
#1.3 - Mon Jan 5, 2009 5:25 AM EST
George-369262

Israel, no doubt with encouragement from the US, keeps trading land for the hope of peace.  Then the Palestiniansuse that area as a base to launch attacks against Israel.   As far as Al-Jazeera having strong reputation for even-handed reporting, isn't this the station which airs the videos of western hostages being beheaded ?  

  • 10 votes
#1.4 - Mon Jan 5, 2009 7:21 AM EST
Eric AlbertDeleted
Eric AlbertDeleted
truthtrekkers

I must disagree that genocide is the goal. I will say that Israel is heavy handed in there dealings in Gaza and the West Bank but since they occupy Jerusalem and Israel with residents being both Muslim and Jew I do not see the argument for genocide.

Jimmy Havok you are right there are grievances since Israel has continued to push citizens of Gaza and the West Bank farther into their territories and continue to blatantly occupy land that is owned by citizens of both regions. As for this attack by Hamas being justified I must say that they A) Attacked right after the lifting of a cease fire and B) Attacked civilian targets C) Hamas did not even make an attempt to go back to the negotiating table.

I am not a blanket supporter of the Palestinians or Israel. Since the return of the Jews after world war 2 they have constantly faced the threat of all the surrounding nations and received hostility from the time they arrived. At the same time it does not excuse some of the inhumane acts of Israel. This is a war that I feel will not be won until the return of the Lord. In the interim I pray for humility to appear in all camps of this fight.

  • 5 votes
#1.7 - Tue Jan 6, 2009 12:31 PM EST
Eric AlbertDeleted
jimmy havok-596667Deleted
Reply
careem

GG has established a theory that anyone rob or forcibly occupy your land and if you claim it back you will be called Luinatic .

  • 3 votes
Reply#2 - Mon Jan 5, 2009 5:20 AM EST
Yaakov

GG has established a theory that anyone rob or forcibly occupy your land and if you claim it back you will be called Luinatic .

Actually, he said nothing of the sort.

  • 9 votes
#2.1 - Mon Jan 5, 2009 5:27 AM EST
careem

Yaakov , why not read his answers  carefully 

  • 1 vote
#2.2 - Mon Jan 5, 2009 6:24 AM EST
Scott Isaacs

careem:

Israel is a sovereign govt, which the Palestinians have never actually formed. They don't have any right to sovereign land unless they can whip the people holding it.

  • 10 votes
#2.3 - Mon Jan 5, 2009 7:04 AM EST
BAjunkie

hey don't have any right to sovereign land

What about the land granted to them by the U.N. in '47?

  • 5 votes
#2.4 - Mon Jan 5, 2009 11:56 AM EST
Max 3PO

We all live on land that was stolen from someone else. King David killed and conquered to get this land a long time ago. It's just who's around to make up new rules and boundaries. A few1,000 years from now it will be, who the hell where these guys as someone sieve's thru the ashes and dirt. Human nature is a bitch, build then destroy, then start all over again.

  • 3 votes
#2.5 - Mon Jan 5, 2009 1:15 PM EST
jimmy havok-596667Deleted
Roxanne2Sweet

Ha ha ha.

Very good point, jimmy

  • 3 votes
#2.7 - Tue Jan 6, 2009 1:54 AM EST
careem

scot isaac , this is how the jews shows their gatitude for the palestinians who protected , sheltered and fed by kind palestinians when they were chased out of Germany.

the gartitude they showed is chased the palestinians out their legal home land and when they reclaimed thwey are called terrorists. 

Is this justice ?

    #2.8 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:45 AM EST
    Reply
    tcareywood

    Yeah, yeah, just like the sinking of the USS Liberty was an act of self-defense and the bilking of American taxpayers to support Israel is an act of self-defense and on and on and on.  Israel justifies everything they do, legal or illegal, moral or immoral, as an act of self-defense.

    • 7 votes
    Reply#3 - Mon Jan 5, 2009 5:47 AM EST
    careem

    The war in Iraq is also  to protect mad blood thirsty dogs - Israel at the expense of USS tax payers.

    • 6 votes
    #3.1 - Mon Jan 5, 2009 6:32 AM EST
    IndependentVoter

    You would think that by now Israel would just realize this it just supposed to tolerate the 6000 rockets in the past six years.

    • 8 votes
    #3.2 - Mon Jan 5, 2009 10:01 AM EST
    worldknightboy

    Or the other types of hamas terrorist attacks, including hamas suicide bombers and snipers, the past 6 years, which have also killed and wounded hundreds of Israelis..

    • 8 votes
    #3.3 - Mon Jan 5, 2009 11:25 AM EST
    jimmy havok-596667Deleted
    Reply
    tk4truth

    To defend against rocket attacks, is the only Israeli military strategy to engage in collective punishment?

    en.wikipedia. org /wiki/Collective_punishment

    • 4 votes
    Reply#4 - Mon Jan 5, 2009 6:39 AM EST
    Tim-694587

     Well considering if Pals gained control over all the land and Isreal they would start commiting genocide and Most of there defenders would say its ok  I dont see why Jews there should lie down and wait to be killed. If it where reversed they all women children old etc would be lined up and shot.

     Maybe they should do unto the pals as the Pals want to do unto them hows that for being fair.

    • 4 votes
    Reply#5 - Mon Jan 5, 2009 9:13 AM EST
    worldknightboy

    I think Israel should first continue along with its current tactics of overwhelming and accurate firepower against the terror group hamas. I don't think Israel should stoop to the level of the terrorists, indiscriminantly targeting innocent civilians.

    • 9 votes
    #5.1 - Mon Jan 5, 2009 11:27 AM EST
    Arad

    I don't think Israel should stoop to the level of the terrorists, indiscriminantly targeting innocent civilians.

    This.

    • 2 votes
    #5.2 - Mon Jan 5, 2009 11:38 AM EST
    Jane WIlder

    why do you call them pals?

      #5.3 - Tue Jan 6, 2009 1:23 AM EST
      Tim-694587

       Its called bad spelling.... Or lazy spelling... Just wondering if all the PALS supporters are supporting the fact they want all jews dead?

        #5.4 - Tue Jan 6, 2009 8:51 AM EST
        jimmy havok-596667Deleted
        Reply
        landspirit

        Israel is not targeting civilians.  Hamas has hidden amongst the citizens so that Israel would not go after them.  6000 rocket hits later, Israel has to defend her country.  It is good to see that this person was allowed to be interviewed.  Every death of a civilian hangs on the Hamas head.  Without the Hamas activity, Israel would not have to defend herself.  A new prophet of Islam needs to come and lead the people out of the violent grip of the Hamas and other Islam extremists who have distorted and made a sick mockery of their faith.

        • 7 votes
        Reply#6 - Mon Jan 5, 2009 12:26 PM EST
        ephuzz

        Usually both Israel and Palenstine are partly responsible for any violent flare ups in the region but this recent turn is totally Hamas's fault. I feel very, very bad for the innocent people dying in both Palestine and Israel but if Hamas doesn't break that ceasefire there wouldn't be these pictures of little kids burned and killed. I don't recall any sort of discrimination used in the attacks on 9/11 or anyother major terrorist attack in the last 20 years. If Muslims want to be treated with fairness and respect it should be THEIR leaders talking to Hamas to convince them to work for peace.

        • 5 votes
        Reply#7 - Mon Jan 5, 2009 4:26 PM EST
        Jane WIlder

        not all Palestinians are muslims. So your point is kind of weird. Europeans ? Are they all collectively guilty too. saying all Muslims are part of 9 11 is so ignorant not to mention really racist .

        • 3 votes
        #7.1 - Tue Jan 6, 2009 1:26 AM EST
        jimmy havok-596667Deleted
        Reply
        Tony Dingler

        The meek will inhairit the earth .what is the meaning of the word meek?

        • 3 votes
        Reply#8 - Mon Jan 5, 2009 8:39 PM EST
        Not by might, nor power

        Meekness:  A disposition to be patient and long suffering, not easily provoked.

        People who don't launch rockets at civilian targets and send suicide bombers into crowded cities.  People who don't hijack planes and ram them into skyscapers killing thousands of innocent people.  People who don't believe their only reason for being is to destroy another nation with a different religion.

        These wicked people will not inherit the earth.

        " For in just a little while, and the wicked shall be no longer:  Yes, you shall diligently consider his place, and he shall not be.  But the meek shall inherit the land, and they shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace. "  Psalm 37:10-12

        • 3 votes
        #8.1 - Tue Jan 6, 2009 4:52 PM EST
        Reply
        Trevor Ycas

        Why The Palestinians?

        The Palestinian people have been imprisoned since the internationally questionable Israeli actions decades ago. An entire generation of Palestinians has grown up without a nation, without an identity, and without freedom (or some reasonable equivalent).

        Why the Fighting?

        With regards to the recent violence in Gaza, to accuse the imprisoned Palestinians of ’starting it all’ is blatantly unfair, because such a viewpoint can only be maintained if the generation-scale imprisonment is ignored. Although there are few parallels to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, any time and any place that millions of people are deprived of the right to govern themselves, the right to travel, the right to basic necessities, the rights to safety and the right to dignity, they will struggle. Dare to forcibly contain such a group of people inside a giant concrete fence against the ocean and they will resort to actions no one would normally consider defensible or appropriate. Thus the vicious cycle of violent resistance and violent retribution begins.

        What To Do?

        Until the root issue, the right to self-governance for the Palestinians, is addressed, this cycle of 'justified' violence will continue. Therefore, with regards to ‘who started it all’, the roles of captor and prisoner must be examined. This consideration can and will ultimately provide a safe, secure, peaceful situation for all peoples in the region.

        • 4 votes
        Reply#9 - Mon Jan 5, 2009 9:11 PM EST
        mdnorcuss

        your comment makes little sense.  The Palestinians have never had a "nation," have never--or at least for centuries--self-governed,and have never had a defined territory.  So why should they have a right to separate self-governanace, rather than simply a place iont the governance of some other established nation??  Do we blame the Romans, the Turks, the Persians, the Brits, etc etc for the non-state status of this nomadic people?  And it is not like the jews invaded Palestine--the territory was granted by the UN on the breakuo of the former British colonies.  So who is to blame?  The whole world perhaps? 

        • 4 votes
        #9.1 - Tue Jan 6, 2009 1:45 AM EST
        jimmy havok-596667Deleted
        Irene-498401

        The UN doesn't 'award' territory, they were trying to broker an arrangement at the request of the British, who were in over their heads.

        Land was not 'seized.'

        Israel has not been 'immoral' for 60 years or 'constantly attacking their neighbors' 'trying to seize more territory'

        • 2 votes
        #9.3 - Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:22 PM EST
        jimmy havok-596667Deleted
        Irene-498401

        Did you direct me to the right place? because I was already woefully informed about most of the info on your wiki page link -- ( except maybe that the Arabs were aligned with Germany and the Axis powers and there was a Muslim SS during WWII which was the Mandate period, who knew?)

        Am I supposed to read the wiki page with special anti-Zionist x-ray specs or something?

        • 1 vote
        #9.5 - Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:40 AM EST
        Reply
        Tsabarit

        Iran will fight Israel until the last palestinian..

        • 9 votes
        Reply#10 - Mon Jan 5, 2009 9:34 PM EST
        Not by might, nor power

        Tsabarit,  well said and so true.

        • 5 votes
        #10.1 - Tue Jan 6, 2009 4:32 PM EST
        Reply
        Stuart Archer Cohen

        You have to ask yourself what you would do in their situation.  Hamas doesn't talk about "secure, peaceful situations for all peoples in the region," it states that its goal is to destroy Israel (and, in their latest emission, to kill Jews all over the world).  When the borders are open, they smuggle in weapons, when they're closed, they complain because they're being oppressed.  They summarily execute anyone suspected of collaboration.  They're religious fanatics who are steadily clamping down on the rights of the secular Palestinians and every civilian death is a victory for them, as it polarizes people, a goal of any guerrilla group.

        There are a lot of victims here, but the Israeli bombing is far from indiscriminate.  If it was, there would be tens of thousands of deaths right now, not several hundred.  No country in the world has to sit back and let themselves be harrassed, and no Arab country would put up with that either.

        One last perspective: an equal number of Jews (about 800,000) fled or were booted out of Arab countries in 1948 as were Palestinians.  The difference is that the Jews were not kept in camps by their alleged supporters, but were integrated into the state of Israel.  The Gazans are victims of the Israelis, but are equally victims of the other Arab countries.

        • 10 votes
        Reply#11 - Mon Jan 5, 2009 9:52 PM EST
        worldknightboy

        Clear perspectice, SAC! Friends request sent!

        • 2 votes
        #11.1 - Wed Jan 7, 2009 1:17 AM EST
        Reply
        Mr. Leslie Staines

        Hamas must be totally destroyed and the same with any terrorist organisation that fires rockets, mortars or maims innocent people and then is also supported by people that are willing to turn a blind eye to this Killing. Palestinians in Gaza support the Hamas regime and have done nothing to stop it Iran supports Hamas by supplying them with arms so as Syria, if the Hamas followers do not lay down their arms and supports peace with Israel then Gaza should be made a waste land this way it would stop the rockets once andĀ for all. Israel should continue with the ground invasion of Gaza until Hamas is brought to its Knees and begs for Peace Muslims followers who support the attacks on Israel do so at your own peril because then I would totally support your destruction as well. One question that needs an answer is why the Australian Government gives sanctuary to Muslims when they are hell bent on Israels destruction when they support this view they should be removed from Australian soil before they tarnish Australia's Fair go attidude the religion of Muslims is total destruction of any race who does not support the islamic way of life and Australian Politicians are to blind to see it.

        • 9 votes
        Reply#12 - Mon Jan 5, 2009 10:17 PM EST
        worldknightboy

        Great points and questions, Leslie! Friends request sent!

        • 1 vote
        #12.1 - Wed Jan 7, 2009 1:19 AM EST
        jimmy havok-596667Deleted
        Reply
        Tony Dingler

        The reasen  we are having so many problems is that we let women have a say in polatics,and I dont mean females.

        • 1 vote
        Reply#13 - Tue Jan 6, 2009 1:39 AM EST
        Jonathan Weinraub

        It seems to me, everyone forgets the fact that Hamas is purposely hiding with civilians for one reason only.  They want Israel to attack them with the civilans.  How can the Palestinian people think Hamas is for their well being?

        Hamas wants its own population to be killed by the IDF just so that the media covers it.

        They want the negative publicity for Israel from whenever Israel does anything (even if it is in self defence!)  What bothers me the most is, that fact always gets overlooked.

        If even a fraction of these attacks happened on the United States (or any other country for that matter), from say Mexico or Canada (or their respective neighbours) and were being attacked on border towns, constantly, everyday, is the entire world going to say just sit tight and have some restraint?

        Heck no, in fact they would all offer help in eradicating the terrorists from injuring its ally. 

        To me, it seems, everyone wants an excuse to hate Israel even more, even if it is the exact opposite of what you would do if you were in their shoes.

        It is very interesting to read this sort of interview in Al Jazeera, though not the first time I seen such a thing. 

        I saw an interview (in Arabic) condemning violence on both sides, it was not a one-sided argument, and she said it was such conviction, it was really a beautiful thing to watch.

        It really is a shame that no matter what, Israel does the wrong thing, and hardly anyone seems to care even if they aren't.

        • 6 votes
        Reply#14 - Tue Jan 6, 2009 2:15 AM EST
        Dulcita

        Gaza is only so big. Where exactly can your so called terrorist go? They are with the people they feel they are fighting for. Willing to die with them if need be. I haven't seen one Palestinian "terrorist" holding a woman or child in front of them as a shield as people have claimed.  That argument that they are hiding out with the civilians is unfair. How much can someone hide in a place that's probably not as big as Connecticut?

        • 1 vote
        #14.1 - Tue Jan 6, 2009 2:42 AM EST
        Irene-498401

        The terrorists must know how big Gaza is, I read that it is the same size as Manhattan. Why would they shoot Kassam missiles 28 miles into Israel, a land the size of New Jersey. They must know they would be putting civilians at risk in both cases.

        • 2 votes
        #14.2 - Tue Jan 6, 2009 3:14 AM EST
        Yaakov

        @Dulcita:

        I haven't seen one Palestinian "terrorist" holding a woman or child in front of them as a shield as people have claimed.

        Yeah? Well then check this out: Evidence of Hamas Use of Human Shields

        • 4 votes
        #14.3 - Tue Jan 6, 2009 3:15 AM EST
        worldknightboy

        Good points Jonathan! Friends request sent!

        • 1 vote
        #14.4 - Wed Jan 7, 2009 1:21 AM EST
        Reply
        worldcurmudgeon

        Israel is not giving into public pressure, good. Politics be damned, there is no good time to defend yourself against Islamic terrorism. It doesn't matter who wins the Israeli elections, they are going to vote for who they think will provide them security. If it is Livni, or Bebe, so be it.

        • 9 votes
        Reply#15 - Tue Jan 6, 2009 2:37 AM EST
        worldknightboy

        Exactly! islamic terrorism must be forcefully sent back to hell, badly mauled!

        • 2 votes
        #15.1 - Wed Jan 7, 2009 1:26 AM EST
        Reply
        gobbledegook

        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1579424/Israeli-earthquakes-are-gays%27-fault,-says-MP.html

        • 1 vote
        Reply#16 - Tue Jan 6, 2009 2:53 AM EST
        IAmEverydayPeople

        these need to be contrasted with the actions of Hamas where every single rocket is designed to attack civilian populations

        Glowing praise for Israel: not quite as bad as a terrorist organization.

        • 2 votes
        Reply#17 - Tue Jan 6, 2009 9:01 AM EST
        Andrew Ritch

        "in the eyes of International Law" may be subliminal.

        I suspect that this conflict is still a religious war. Somewhere in the Old Testament there is "an eye for an eye!" I guess we can call it what we want but in our depths we know what it really is. Most of these people do not have the New Testament.

        Make peace not war.

        • 2 votes
        Reply#18 - Tue Jan 6, 2009 9:25 AM EST
        Psimon

        Easier to make peace if the ones shooting rockets at you are gone.

        • 1 vote
        #18.1 - Tue Jan 6, 2009 10:43 PM EST
        Andrew Ritch

        If you are still alive to enjoy the victory.

        • 1 vote
        #18.2 - Wed Jan 7, 2009 11:49 AM EST
        jimmy havok-596667Deleted
        Reply
        Smiling Jack

        Even if you target your action at military sites, civilians are inevitably going to get killed...these need to be contrasted with the actions of Hamas where every single rocket is designed to attack civilian populations, so every single act of Hamas in firing these rockets is clearly an illegal act without any legal justification.

        He's quite right, every rocket attack has been targeting civilians.  Where the logic fails with me is that he keep goings back to contrasting one enemy versus another, and I'm not interested in doing that, I only want the conflict resolved.

        When two children get into a fight, usually the worst thing a parent can do is to try and figure out who started it, and declare one child or the other right.  Your supposed to stop them from fighting in such a way that they don't fight again, not determine who was right.

        Israel and Hamas, and the palestinians caught between the two who may not care for Hamas so much, are certainly not children unfortunately.  Not most anyway.  If they were it would be easier to stop this mess.

        Everyone involved in this thinks what they do is justified, and I just don't care in the slightest.  This ugliness goes on for year after year, it never ends.

        • 5 votes
        Reply#19 - Tue Jan 6, 2009 4:51 PM EST
        mdnorcuss

        spoken like a true mediator.  i

          #19.1 - Wed Jan 7, 2009 1:53 AM EST
          Reply
          Emmilly, Sydney

          I completely agree with GG - Isreal must defend itself. by the way, there is no such thing as palastine- pick up a map - so the arabs intention is to kill israeli's and jews alike all over the world. lets imagine that they decided they arent fans of christians or catholics .. as if those groups are going to think, " ok lets not fight back just incase some people think its wrong to would the opponent" as if.  ISRAEL IS THE ONLY DEMOCRATIC STATE IN THE MIDDLE EAST, ITS ETHICAL WAR POLICY IS UNPARRALEL AND STANDS UNMATCHED AND PERHAPS THOSE 'ANTI-ISRAEL' SHOULD NOT BE SWAYED BY ARABIC PROPAGANDA

          • 1 vote
          Reply#20 - Tue Jan 6, 2009 9:25 PM EST
          Trevor Ycas

          I appreciate that my earlier statements were not immediately atttacked; I wish to make it clear that I am not a supporter of violent acts, I am not a Hamas (or Fatah) supporter and I am not a fan of the Israeli actions pertaining to the decadal-scale treatment of the Palestinian people. A supporter of the human right to live freely without negatively impacting others, I hold my earlier statement to be true, in face of the reactions to my words from last week:

          What To Do?

          Until the root issue, the right to self-governance for the Palestinians, is addressed, this cycle of 'justified' violence will continue. Therefore, with regards to ‘who started it all’, the roles of captor and prisoner must be examined. This consideration can and will ultimately provide a safe, secure, peaceful situation for all peoples in the region.

          • 1 vote
          Reply#21 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:21 PM EST
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